Saturday, May 2, 2009

Round II

Feel free to share your news in the comments...


  1. called sfusd yesterday, they said everyone will be mailed a letter, whether you got one or not, so good luck all. btw the sfusd website is not yet updated with approved appeals.

  2. Has anyone heard anything from the District about a decision on whether they will increase class size in grades 1-3?

  3. Good luck, everyone!

  4. YESSSSSSS!!!! We got our wait pool choice -- Jose Ortega Mandarin Immersion!! Oh, what a relief -- I'm so, so happy. Good luck, everyone!!

  5. Our hardship appeal for our neighborhood school (Miraloma -- which is a block from our house) was denied even though it was based on the fact that our incoming Kindergartener's younger sibling has a life-threatening neuromuscular disease that requires close monitoring, constant care, lots of trips to doctors and therapists, etc., and therefore there is a real need not to have our eldest far away from home. We even submitted a letter from our youngest's doctor explaining the need for close proximity in case of emergency, due to the fact that our youngest has a progressive, degenerative condition. To top it all off, the assigned school doesn't even have an inclusion program, so that would prevent them from going to the same school.

    Wow, thanks for nothing SFUSD. Way to go to ignore a family who you really could have chosen to help by at least granting the appeal -- even if a space never opened up at Miraloma.

  6. Holy cow, 11:32 -- I'm so sorry! If your situation doesn't fit the definition of hardship, I don't know what does!!!

  7. 11:32

    appeal this to the Board of Education

    let them see how the idiots at EPC are treating families

    I can't see the BOE members not seeing how this is terribly wrong, especially your oldest being assigned to a school that does not have inclusion, so that the siblings cannot go to the same school together

    one day, all schools in sfusd will adhere to the law and be "inclusion" schools, but until then, this sort of awful thing happens

  8. Our letter says that we did not get into our wait pool school and now we have no assignment at all. Obviously I was unclear, but I thought that they ran the wait pool and if you didn't make it in there your list was put into a second lottery and you would likely wind up with an assignment from there if your list wasn't too ambitious. There is no mention of the 2nd lottery in our letter, only wait pool. Is there something I'm missing?

    11:32am, I'm appalled! That's horrible!

  9. 11:32, that is horrible! I'm so upset for you. It makes our own grumblings about lack of options seem petty.

    We did not get our waitpool school (Miraloma), nor another assignment from Round 2. Remain in our assignment from Round 1, Flynn GE.

    Good luck, everyone.

  10. 0/7 in the first round. 0/8 in Round II. I guess we just have to sit tight for our waitpool school, but frankly, I feel sick. And reading 11.32's post just makes me feel even sicker - how DARE they do that?

  11. Sorry to hear about everyone who did not get their waitpool or round choices. So awful!

    We are really happy - got our waitpool choice, Starr King MI.

  12. Phew, we were assigned to our #2 school: Sutro! Now we just need to figure out if we're going to attend Sutro or the private school where we're already enrolled. We're keeping our name on the Commodore Sloat wait list, too.

    It's nice to [finally!] have options.

    11:32 am: I'm so sorry. I feel sick for you! That is unacceptable.

  13. Just tore open our notice... we got Jose Ortega (GE), #4 on our Round 2 list. Still waitlisted for xxxxxx. Very happy that we at least got one of our choices and don't have to completely sweat it out until September.

  14. 0/7 Round 1, and now 0/14 Round II (waitpool/amended). We put very low in demand schools this time around and didn't get one. This enrollment system is terrible.

  15. No letter arrived today! :-(
    Oh well, til Monday...

  16. 11:32, that is revolting. i am profoundly sorry.

  17. We rec'd a letter that said we did not get an assignment to our waitpool choice. The letter did not say anything about the 7 choices we put for Round 2. Does anyone know if they send out a separate notification letter for round 2?

  18. 11:32 A.M. I'm so angry on your behalf. It's completely appalling that your family has been treated like this. I've heard that hiring a lawyer to handle this kind of situation can possibly make a difference. Best of luck to you.

    p.s. our stats: round 1, 0/7, round 2 0/8 -- *sigh*

  19. To everyone who got a Round II letter saying that they did not get their waitpool school but not mentioning the Round II list: we got the same letter last year. Last year, such a letter meant that they did run the amended application and you didn't get a choice (either for your waitpool school or one of your amended choices), but that they only had one form letter for this and so sent it out with no mention of the amended list. Interesting that the same problems come up with miscommunication year after year, are noticed, but never corrected...

    We got nothing in Round II for 1st grade. We are now 0/26 (put only 4 choices for Round II). Not particularly surprised, but fed up nonetheless. Now we have to figure out whether to keep or give up our waitpool school.

  20. 0/14 Disappointed again....
    When will SFUSD post what happened in this wait pool round so that we can see what's going on? UGH!

  21. 0/7 round 1; John Muir assigned (of course). Changed all our R2 + waitpool to even lower demand schools. Now we are part of the (not so elite) 0/15 club. What a joke.

  22. 11:32 wow. as an earlier poster suggested, do appeal this to the BOE.

  23. Curious which schools people put down. Seems like many schools that were good bets for round 1, or at least decent odds, filled right up in round 1 this year, leaving families to dig ever deeper into the "popularity list." Not sure what the poster at 1:05 meant by "low in demand" schools, but obviously if they were very low in demand then there would be spaces--but that may be very few schools this year. Glad to hear that some here got Sutro, JOES MI and Starr King MI--congrats!

  24. It will be interesting to see how many spots are left in open enrollment. Not many this year, I'd bet.

    I'm sorry for those that got bad news today. Not knowing all the details, it does seem like 11:32 had a good case and it is hard to see why it would be denied--hardship appeals are to my mind part of the process that could be more transparent. Also the issue of special needs and inclusion placements needs serious reform!

    That said, I'm not sure how another assignment system would fix the underlying problem, which is not enough desired spots for the number of applicants. New York City does (mostly) neighborhood assignment, and the New York Times is reporting that parents are hopping mad at their system and their politicians, as families that paid premium mortgage/rental prices to move into certain school zones are now being informed that they are S.O.L. in getting a spot in their school zones due to over-enrollment. Instead, they are being sent to neighboring zone schools that are not considered as desirable. Not that much different from going 0/15 in terms of how that probably feels--with the added insult that you spent a lot of real estate or rental money to buy into that original zone.

    The point being, the issue is (at least perceived) scarcity, not how the kids are assigned. With scarcity, whoever is left out will be cursing the system, whatever that system is. I realize this is no comfort to those who did not get good news today, sorry.

  25. 11:32 Your claiming the second (younger) child as a hardship for the older/attending child. Do you know what kind of legal issues this would open up for the district?

  26. the take-away for me, and what i am advising all my friends who are about to go through this next year, is to include middle to lower demand schools on the list in round 1. clearly these can not be counted on as back-up in round 2! you can't wait until round 2 to start looking for those, as may have been the case in years past. the list of available schools just keeps shrinking in successive rounds. you have to put some lower demand ones on the list in round 1, hopefully get your top choice but at least get something, and then you waitpool for your top choice from there including in the 10-day count.

  27. I'm curious if SF Mom (self-described "worst mom") got one of her choices.....hope so!

  28. We got 0/7 round 1 and 0/8 round 2. No school assignment. We too put schools that are in far less demand on round 2 and got nada.

  29. Another takeaway for next year's parents--it's a great idea to put the Mandarin programs as your waitpool choice if your kid is not a Mandarin speaker, as these spots seem to open in the round 2 portion of the process, I would guess due to unavailability of native Mandarin applicants. I suppose this could shift, but notice that TK Mom and Hana's Mom each got one of these slots. Mazeltov to both of you, btw.

  30. Didn't get our Waitpool school. No mention of the amended schools.

    I guesss we are stuck with the assignment from round 1.

  31. Hey TST, I'm sorry. Wonder if you could share which ones. I'm trying to figure out just how filled up some formerly less popular schools are, and which ones are not at this point. Thanks.

  32. Yes, could people who went 0/8 in Round II post their lists?

  33. Anyone know when the next waitpool stats will be posted on the sfusd website?

  34. Got our top choice, Alvarado Spanish Immersion (we speak Spanish at home and our child tested 100 percent fluent).

    Someone will be very happy to get our old spot at Miraloma ;-)

  35. Yes, it would be helpful to know which schools that seemed like safe choices are no longer safe. That list is a moving target from year to year and round to round. Like, once in the mists of time, Miraloma was a safe choice in every round, but I think everyone understands that is not true now. Which schools have made the leap to "not safe" (at least in round 2) this year?

  36. 2:50--they won't be posted today, a Saturday. I'd guess next week.

    Those who got assignments today that you like, congratulations, and please remember to register at the school by May 15. I know of at least two parents who forgot to do that after round 1!

  37. Hopefully it is juat bad dream and they'll another letter for Round 2 on Monday. If not than we are 0/15. Or 0/17 if you include charter and private.

    Here is the second list of schools that we didn't get which are all different choices from Round 1. Not all super low demand, but thought we'd try.

    Waitpool: Fairmount SI
    Glen Park
    Harvey Milk
    Monroe SI
    SF Community
    Jose Ortega MI
    Star King MI

    Really frustrated.

  38. 3:14, that is not an outrageous list by any stretch. it is quite surprisising you did not get anything. sorry.

  39. 3:14, so sorry.

    Last year I think you would have had a good shot in round 2 at Glen Park, Sunnyside, and the Mandarin programs (probably not the others though, other than with a stroke of lottery luck). You are caught in the growing scarcity problem. Schools with good odds last year do not have them this year. I'm really sorry for your frustration, but thanks for sharing, because this is good information for future K-seekers: if you want Sunnyside, for example, don't wait until round 2 to apply. At the very least, waitpool it. Some of these schools were probably good bets in the waitpool, but they seem to have filled right up in that process (by TK Mom and Hana's Mom, for example).

    Without offering any guarantees in this difficult process, I do urge you to hang in there in the WP process, as there is movement. Are you going to switch from Fairmount if it looks like a large waitpool (probably is, most immersion schools are).

  40. Anyone get Sherman in Round 2? We are hosting our Kindergarten Orientation on Friday,May 8th and would love ALL incoming k'ers to be there!

  41. Got nothing....frustrated and angry

  42. 3:14 here.
    Fairmount is our neighborhood school. I know this doesn't matter. It had 13 spots in their first guestimate at waitpool which seemed like decent odds in comparison to say..Alvarado SI which was closer to 30.

    I honestly don't know what I'll do now. Do I switch to waitpool a school that is my 17th choice?

  43. our 2 cents, too early for movement to happen to open up spots. this was a waste of a round to placate parents. people moving out, taking up pvt, etc are not all going to bother to give up their spots. this is only going to happen in september when school opens and some kids dont show up. we were actually told that during one of our tours- we plan to call our faves in september and try and get a spot in; and just go through the motions till then.

  44. 0/15 I would tell incoming K parents that if you don't have a diversity factor and aren't willing to send your kid to a 1/5 star school to move out of the city before kindergarten.

  45. nothing in round 1, nothing in round 2. we didn't enroll in our assigned school, john muir. prepared to wait it out. i am hoping they open some kindergarten classes over the summer. amended list included harvey milk and sunnyside and i'm a little surprised we didn't get one of those. but not really i guess. nothing sfusd does surprises me.
    good luck to everyone.

  46. FYI Sunnyside was on our Round II list last year and we didn't get it, either (though we know some who did).

  47. Harvey Milk was an excellent Waitpool choice, but not-so-good Round 2 choice.

    I hope next year's parents take the time to understand the difference.

    It was our best friend's top choice in Round 1 and she got it, no problem.

    Sweet little school ready for take-off (it is much easier to turn around a smaller school). Centrally located.

  48. 3:45, I'm in the same situation as you. Since the beginning, I knew there was no way that I'd send my kid to John Muir (I didn't register either). I'm 0/15. As of now, unless I get my waitpool, pretty sure I'm going to end up at private.

  49. 3:58-If next years K parents 'take the time to understand the difference' what would you say ARE good round 2 choices?

  50. Disregarding the snotty "if next year's parents etc..." comment from 3:52, I'd say good Round II choices would be places people got assigned in Round II when it wasn't on their list: Jose Ortega, Rosa Parks (especially since JBBP is opening a 3rd classroom), Sheridan etc.

    Hindsight is 20/20, though, and next year's parents will have a different panorama entirely.

    When are we going to stop blaming the victim/other parents and start addressing the root of this problem: a system that has too few spots to provide "choice" in a meaningful way?

  51. Sorry, I meant that good ROund II choices would be schools where families got assigned in ROund I when it wasn't on their list.

  52. Got Sutro, one of our Round II choices (#6) and very happy and relieved. Sutro is a great little school that doesn't get a lot of buzz. I would advise next year's applicants to consider it as a potential round 1 choice because if this year is any indication, schools like Sutro will fill up very quickly in Round II.

  53. We're 0/15, too, dammit.

    September here we come! Thank goodness we have a nice evening out planned where we can relax and remember that life is much bigger than this process.

    Best to all. And yes, 11:32, to the BOE with you! That story is appalling.

  54. Since we were 0/7 in R1, don't have a private backup, and were NOT going to send our kid to his assignment of Cesar Chavez, we took a very conservative approach for R2, unlike our shoot-the-moon R1 picks.

    Here's what our approach was for R2 (we got one of R2 choices - Jose Ortega GE). Since the waitpools are run before Round 2, anything with a waitpool last year, unless it was really small, you could assume would be unavailable for Round 2. So all of our R2 picks had NO waitpool last year, except for a pie-in-the-sky choice of Alvarado since it's nearby:
    1. Harvey Milk
    2. Alvarado GE
    3. New Traditions
    4. Jose Ortega GE
    5. Jean Parker
    6. Leonard Flynn GE

    Our waitpool choice also (last year) had NO waitpool, so we thought it was a good bet for this year (though we didn't get it, yet).

    Everything seems tighter this year. Once the April WaitPools were posted, we saw that 4 of 6 of our R2 choices that had NO waitpool last year had waitpools this year (though relatively small). And our WP choice which also had no WP last year has a double-digit WP this year.

    Breathing easier. Still hoping for our WP in September, but at least we have an acceptable assignment now.

  55. We got Redding ES in R2 (put it at #7 on our R2 amended list). I had never heard of the school until I called PPSF after going 0/7 in R1. PPSF advised me to see the following schools (we live in Cole Valley):
    New Traditions- which I had seen in R1 and then a second time in R2 and still found too chaotic for my child's personality....mine too
    Harvey Milk, same impression as above
    Sutro- put it on R2 list, really liked the principal and have a preschool friend whose daughter is going there for K
    McCoppin (had seen it in R1 and ended up not putting it on our original 7 list, felt there were others I would have preferred over it, and still do, even though it is fairly close to my home, can't put my finger on it)
    Peabody (put it on our R2 list, even though principal didn't seem keen on parent volunteers in the K's)
    Jefferson- which I had ignored in R1, thinking it was 'far away', ends up being not that far from us and I really liked it.
    Then I threw in 2 schools I loved in R1... namely Argonne and Miraloma. Redding which was at the bottom of the new list is what we got, which is a HUGE step up from John Muir (our R1 assigned school). We have no independant, parochial or otherwise as back-ups.
    Though Redding was no where near my 1st choice I put it on my R2 list because-
    I had a wonderful feeling about the principal, Darlene Lau (who called me back personally to set up a tour, granted I was the only person on this tour, she let me sit in on each of their 3 K classes by myself to observe, which was really special. She has been there for 17 years, has been offered other positions in the district but loves Redding above all. The student body is the most diverse I have seen in SF. I was a little thrown when it was described as being in the Tenderloin, and yes, it's close and maybe not everyone's (including not mine) ideal location, it's on Pine, between Larkin and Post, a big brick building. Two teachers told me that they loved teaching there (I had not asked). OK, the play area is not great (in fact it is really lacking on every level, compared to other schools), and yes, the kids have to cross an alley to get to their above-a-city-garage-open-air-gym. But I thought I should go see it, and surprised myself at how much I liked it over, the other schools I looked at in R2 (schools like Rosa Parks, NT, H. Milk, John Muir, yes, I did tour it because I felt I could not just write it off without at least given it a look first...)
    Has anyone else seen Redding? What did you think, it's close to Sherman. It is a school with an urban/city feel...there are 3 K classes, they have a computer room, AIM comes in to teach music, kids seem to come from all over the world...I think we might very well give it a try?

  56. The mail just came and one of our twins going into 2nd Grade got a spot at Lakeshore, which was somewhere around our 6th choice on the amended list. The other twin didn't get an assignment. :(

    We need to figure out what to do with the unassigned child's wait pool school, which is currently Clarendon GE. The April 6 list has them as the only two in the 0/7 cohort and if we move the unassigned child's wait pool choice to Lakeshore, we'll have to give up on Clarendon for this year.

  57. Got our waitpool pick, Starr King MI, which freed up our spot at Sutro.

    @12:57 and 4:10, congrats on Sutro! We were happy to get in there in Round 1. I also don't understand why it's not in high demand like the surrounding schools.

    @2:33, yeah a lot of spots opened in the Mandarin immersion programs in Round 2 the last couple of years because the EPC freed up slots reserved in Round 1 for Mandarin-speaking kids. Don't know if the situation will be the same next year.

    @4:01 and 4:06, I don't think the "take the time to learn the difference" comment was snotty. There's a BIG difference between the waitpool pick and the seven Round 2 choices: the EPC fills open slots from the waitpool first. That means a school has to clear its waitpool entirely before turning to people who listed it as a Round 2 pick. None of the popular schools clear the waitpool entirely.

  58. 0-19 no publics no privates. hmmm looks like we'll be moving.

  59. Phyllis Matsuno..was the principal at Sherman until this past year. Can anyone tell me where she is? I am aiming for that school, wherever it is. She was fabulous when we met her.

  60. Wow, the 2nd grade world really looks different from the 1st grade world! Lakeshore with open spots after waitpool choices? No one in the Clarendon GE waitpool?

    It really shows how much the demographics changed between 2 years ago and last year (and now!)

  61. We got an approved appeal letter which I can not believe after reading 11:32's post. But that being said we did not get a letter saying that we got into anything and we did not get a letter saying we didn't get anything so I am not sure what to think. Maybe an additional letter will come on Monday or we are just still on the waiting list. Our waitlist choice was Alvarado Spanish but we switched to McKinley after seeing the original numbers.

  62. 5:12, so what did the your letter say?

  63. 4:34 PM here

    Actually, there were 8 on the wait pool for Clarendon GE 2nd Grade. As of April 6, our twins were the only ones in the 0/7 cohort. The other six were in a lower priority cohort (didn't select 7 choices for round 1).

    It seems like most people have landed in a school they are happy with by the end of 1st Grade. In our case, we're struggling with the difficult decision of leaving a great, but expensive independent school. There are far fewer families looking for spots in 2nd Grade compared to K and 1.

    Wondering how likely it is that any spaces will free up at Clarendon in 2nd Grade. I haven't been able to find any historical information on how many spaces generally free up there. Does anyone with children at Clarendon know about how many new children come into Clarendon in Grades 2-5?

  64. We need to remember that there is little movement between round 1 and round II since most folks register for their assigned school, if it is a decent option.

    We went 0/15 last year. 0/15 so far this year for 1st grade. I have little hope to hear anything before the 10 day count for 1st grade.

  65. 4:26, DO give Redding a try. It's a lovely community that is overlooked because of location. The arts are great the staff as you mentioned is stable (generally a good sign), and the scores are surprisingly high for the demographics. I predict word will get out on this one.

  66. parent with twins,

    I loved Lakeshore. spacious campus, better enrichment classes than Clarendon, I thought. Anyway, I'm sure you have your homework done--but since one is in Lakeshore, i bet you get the second one in--big school.

    I have friends in 1st grade there. Lots of nice things to say.

    Best of luck. thanks for hearing my 2c.

  67. 4:58: Phyllis Matsuno is retired, thank god. She is horrible.

  68. We liked Lakeshore a lot more than Clarendon. Clarendon felt over-crowded and a little "resting on its laurels", if you ask me.

  69. BTW

    I've said it before, but since folks are in need, KMS has Kindergarten openings, and upper elementary, too. They started expanding the program last year, but haven't put energy into promoting this. Therefore, spaces have not been filled.
    hot organic lunch option
    field trips
    project and experienced based
    inexpensive, month to month
    Guerrero/25th St.

  70. Parent of twins here.

    Thanks, Kortney, for the words of encouragement! We live around the corner from Lakeshore and it seems like a fine school. I'm impressed with the academic achievement at Clarendon and that's why it has been our first choice. In the end, having both boys at the same school is pretty important to us.

    Good luck to everyone else!

  71. It may have sounded snotty, but the point was sound strategy. Setting aside feelings and frustrations, it is true that you just have to be more conservative--REALLY conservative--if you truly want to get a Round 2 pick. Hence the family that got a spot at JOES GE, a program to which people were assigned as 0/7s in Round 1 (although: caveat emptor, I would lay odds that JOES GE will be more popular next year and certainly the year after!).

    Meanwhile, the waitpool is run first so your chances of capturing one of the open spots is higher--figuring there are generally some people, esp at the popular picks, who don't register because they get their private/parochial choice or whatever.

    HOWEVER, if you really, really need that waitpool spot, i.e., you have no backup private or parochial and it would be difficult or impossible or inconceivable to move, then it is good strategy to be conservative in your waitpool pick as well. Any school with over five in the pool, and certainly any school with over ten, is not great odds, figuring that maybe 2-4 spots open up on average. Notice, even with 4 spots open, that 10 in the WP (at your priority level or higher) means a less than 50% chance of getting one of those spots.

    For those with backup plan, or with strong stomachs, gambling for a "higher" or more preferred spot is certainly not crazy, and the payoff can be high. It is certainly true that more spots will open up in September, especially after the 10-day count.

    I'm not trying to get in people's faces here, but for the purposes of helping parents about to launch into this process: Try to set emotions aside and assess the odds somewhat coldly (as best as one can given incomplete information).

    It's important to understand that schools "on the move" like JOES will not be easy walk-ins in the future. The best, best strategy, not always easy, is to find that school that is about to be on the move (Daniel Webster, for example). And then list it in Round 1, ideally! My strategies:

    1) Do not wait for post-Round 1 to "stretch."

    2) Do recognize the difference in odds between WP and Round 2, and pick accordingly, i.e., very conservatively in Round 2, basically only schools that were under-picked in Round 1.

    3) If you really need a school, don't waitpool a school with double-digit pool.

    4) Above all, determine your risk level. Round 2 is not a waste for parents who are willing to pick schools that are far down the list in terms of requests, like Redding or JOES GE--mostly because these can be a be a huge step up from a 0/7 assignment that is truly unacceptable. If you are 0/7, unacceptable offer, no backup, use Round 2 very wisely to step up, but don't overshoot.

  72. 5:53 with twins,

    Question (I don't know the answer)--is your second (unassigned) twin now in the sibling priority cohort for the WP at Lakeshore? That seems like decent odds to me, at least by September.

  73. so we got our third pick for RII


    But I had been falling in love with J Ortega GE on here... oh well.

    We're going to waitlist Sunnyside but since we are Round II people, the only way we'll get in is the 10 day count.

    Our backup private called yesterday to say they still have a K spot for us if we want it.. but we need to let them know this week. My partner has been unemployed for six months, and job prospects aren't looking good

    The thing I don't get about Sheridan is they have high API scores yet they don't score really high on the individual tests. How does that work? With an API of 810, wouldn't you think that the CST scores would be higher than 50-60% at proficient or advanced level.

    The scariest part about Sheridan is that there is NO parent involvement that I can see. I'm scared because I know this is a school that parent swear they wouldn't send their child.. but I'm sending mine?

    Time to go spend some serious time there!

    A note to those 0/15, you can do the 10 day wait. It has been sucessful for others in the past, though I'd do a school like anything but Sunnyside (that's a joke, I don't want anyone to waitlist sunnyside so we can get a spot there, but seriously it may be a good option, or Sutro if you're on that side of the city)

  74. also for the parent of Twins..

    since one of your daughters got into Lakeshore, you now have sibling priority for the second one. Its also a large school so your twins would have a chance to have individual experiences (if they wanted to).

    I loved Lakeshore when I toured. Its totally in the wrong direction for my commute but I still would have liked it.

    And for the family denied Miraloma. I'd get a lawyer involved. If your case isn't a hardship, I'd like to hear the ones that were approved. That is just WRONG! I'd also keep my hopes up for the 10 day count, you should be in the top cohort anyway.

  75. SF Mom, glad you got an acceptable pick after everything was said and done. Do spend time over there. The test scores don't surprise me--the CST tests are harder. CA standards actually quite rigorous compared to many. Test scores actually really good there given the demographics. Your kid should be fine. Still--good luck with Sunnyside!

  76. SFMom, There will be a spot opening up at Jose Ortega GE soon. We are assigned there and also got accepted at a parochial school. As soon as this Round II is over, we'll be making the final decision and more than likely releasing our JOES spot.

  77. FYI, I got the official response on the enrollment policy for twins and blogged about it a while ago:

    -- Caroline Grannan

  78. Phyllis Matsuna -sorry about the spelling- is the principal of Longfellow - which is near the Daly City border and has impressive scores. Redding is a lovely school full of caring adults.

  79. FYI-We put Daniel Webster on the Round 2 list and didn't get it.

  80. That's very interesting 6:54, as I would have figured Daniel Webster still had openings in Round 2. I guess it has already moved into the "Round One Only" circle.

    This is sobering news. It will be interesting to see which schools actually do *not* have waitpools when the district publishes the list.

    What this highlights for me for next year's cohort is the need to be very, very careful with Round One picks, as the spots are so scarce even in schools way down the popularity list by the time Round Two arrives. If you are definitely planning to go public, it's important to land a spot in Round One.

  81. Can someone shed some insight.

    We did not get a letter today. We went 0/7 originally and were assigned John Muir. We did not enroll.

    Does this mean we did not get into the waitlist school nor the amended 7 list?


  82. Question for the parent of twins-

    I'm a twin mom applying for K in the fall ( they will start in 10) and I was under the impression that twins are kept together and that you have to submit the same lists for both. Is the process different for 2nd grade? I'm assuming you want them both at the same school at least for convenience.

  83. Poor Longfellow, under that inept dictator

  84. I thought we were casting kind of a wide net with our round II: Garfield, Sutro, Spring Valley, Jean Parker, Lao, Yick Wo, and Peabody. Sure some of them might have had longer odds..Peabody, Yick Wo. But I thought there might be a little movement. We went 0/7 and now are 0/7 again. This is a tough year.

  85. 6:54,7:20 Re: Daniel Webster... already moved into the "Round One Only" circle.

    Not necessarily "Round One Only"... just that other families got it in Round 2 before 6:54, and it filled up before them unfortunately.

  86. For Lakeshore twin mom: I'm also a mom of twins (K this fall) and while we ended up not applying to Lakeshore (a bit far from us), I have a friend and a co-worker who have a child there and they both love the school. If it is so close to your home, I say enroll twin1. Twin2 will have sibling preference in the waitpool. I hope that a spot opens up for him. I feel for you.

    For twin mom applying next year. Yes, they are trying to keep twins together. We were lucky to get one of our round1 choices this year and I have a couple of friends with twins, plus twins at our preschool and they were all placed together. It can happen.

  87. 0/7 in round I, 0/8 in round 2. Waitlisted the "new" school de avila, but no luck.

    Included in round 2 amended list
    Commodore sloat
    Francis Scott key
    De avila

    Quite a stressful exercise. Waiting for the next run and hoping to get a decent choice by sept. Does anyone know what the process is in sept? Do we show up at sfusd to find out which spots are open and do they assign on the spot??

  88. Process in Sept:

    You either keep or change your waitpool school. Between now and September, there are a few "runs" of the waitpools --if you get in, they send you a letter (no letter means no dice). Starting the week before school starts, they start calling you instead of sending a letter. In the 5 and 10 day counts, they may call several people a day on some waitpools (some, like Claire Lilianthal, Grattan, and Miraloma, moved rapidly last year, some had NO movement at all. This is a good thing to research when you're thinking about which waitpool to be in). You can, and probably will, end up going to EPC and waiting (and waiting and waiting) to keep tabs on the waitpools etc. and because it makes you feel like they know you're interested (it doesn't make any difference, in actuality). Finally, in the end of October or earlier, they dissolve the waitpool s and at that point the only way you can get in to a school is by transfering into the district from outside.

  89. We put Lakeshore as our waitpool school for K and got it. We originally had Clarendon as our choice but submitted a revised list when we got a look at waitpool numbers. In all honesty we hadn't been all that thrilled with Clarendon, we were just caught up in the frenzy.

    We're a little in shock. It worked out almost how we expected it might, which is a little weird given that nothing has worked out that way thus far!

  90. Parent with Twins Here

    "Question (I don't know the answer)--is your second (unassigned) twin now in the sibling priority cohort for the WP at Lakeshore?"

    We had both twins wait pooled at Clarendon, so right now, the unassigned twin is still wait pooled at Clarendon. We have to decide whether to change the wait pool to Lakeshore (the safest bet) or keep the unassigned twin on Clarendon's list and hope that two spots open up there. Currently, we have a good shot at the first spots that open up at Clarendon. Sounds like many parents on this list prefer Lakeshore over Clarendon. It's something we'll have to consider seriously, because we really don't want to have them both at different schools.

    7:10 wrote:

    "I'm a twin mom applying for K in the fall ( they will start in 10) and I was under the impression that twins are kept together and that you have to submit the same lists for both. Is the process different for 2nd grade?"

    We submitted the same list for ours and they were both assigned to JOES GE in Round 1 (not one of our choices). We submitted the same list in Round 2 and one was assigned to Lakeshore and the other didn't get a spot anywhere.

    I have had confirmation that we can now move to the sibling cohort at Lakeshore with our second twin, which means we're assured the next available spot assuming there are no approved appeals ahead of us.

    I think that if we change our wait pool choice to Lakeshore for Twin B, we're not able to get him into Clarendon this year, since he'll be considered placed if he gets into his wait pool choice. Meanwhile, it's quite possible we'll get a call that a space opens up for Twin A at Clarendon. Not 100% sure if Twin B then gets sibling priority at Clarendon. Does anyone know the answer to that question?

  91. I know of someone who got into Peabody off the waitpool. I was a bit surprised (and pleased for her), I thought it would be a long shot for sure. They will be giving up their spot at McCoppin.

    And yes, for this year's MI programs, from the first waitpool it seemed like a good bet, 13 waitpooling SK MI for a reported ~17 open spots (because they had been held for Mandarin speakers in Round 1). I never had confirmation on how many spaces were actually open but it felt like both what we wanted in a school, for the most part, and a good shot at actually getting in.

    Unless the district changes how they allocate spaces, the MI spaces will continue to have the same pattern. it's just a long stretch for many of the native Mandarin families to imagine dragging their kids over to Potrero or down to JOES. Not saying there will be 17+ spots open next year for R2, but I imagine there will be some open spaces.

  92. 11:32 Your note actually gave me chills. As a parent of a special needs child I have seen how the SFUSD handles these situations-Poorly, almost without exception. I am sure you are probably tired of fighting at this point but go to BOE and check out Support for Families (you probably already have) but they can be a HUGE help with advocacy. Best of luck and know that there is a whole community cheering you on.

  93. my friend who got 0/7 and assigned john muir, got grattan off the wait list. pretty cool, huh?

  94. 12:51
    it sounds like you want an MI program without any Mandarin speaking children

    isn't the whole model is built upon the assumption that 1/2 the children will be native speakers, and the more you dilute that ratio, the less it is a true immersion program?

  95. I would like to give a big shout out to Kim Green. I read way too many comments on this blog for this process. Kim had some great advice - find those schools that aren't the superstars, but that you can live with and put them down on your list in Round One with your longshot schools. I had always heard that "you'll eventually get what you want," but after watching what my friends went through last year, I didn't think that would be the case this year. It wasn't a 100% certain strategy (buzz killed the safety status of some schools this year), but all I can say is thank you thank you thank you!

    You also made me laugh.

  96. 12:51 here...

    No, I'm not really advocating any particular position. We speak Mandarin at home but my daughter didn't test as bilingual. I really really wanted her and her sister to have Mandarin.

    I'm just noting that in the current dual-immersion model, there are 60 (or 66 this year) spaces for native/bilingual Mandarin kids and so far the district has not turned up that many kids who qualify as native/bilingual *and* their parents are willing or able to send them to SK/JOES, for whatever reason.

    I should be glad - it worked out for us because it did open up a lot of spaces in R2. But we were every bit as stressed as everyone else on this board who went 0/7 in R1.

    I think if the district really wanted to change the placements in R1 they might want to consider making it one-way immersion rather than dual, then they could fill the spots in the first round and I'm sure there would be demand. However that would give up any priority to native speakers and I do think having native speakers, especially in a tonal language like Mandarin, should in theory be helpful to all of the students in these programs.

    Anyway, I don't know enough about how the two models work to advocate one policy over the other, just saying that it impacts how many families are placed in the Mandarin programs in R1/R2.

  97. We are 0/7 in round 1 and did not accept Longfellow.
    We are 0/8 in round 2.

    Waitlist west portal Chinese immersion. We really want a language immersion school.

    Any thoughts or insight as to the possibility of getting into JOES or de avila at this point?

    We have no school currently. Are we SOL??!!

  98. We waitlisted DeAvila and were feeling optimistic until go..they're actively seeking ELL students

  99. We just got our letter and we're 0/15. Feinstein is across the street from us and our preferred school. I'm at a loss here--this is the most frustrating and pointless process I've ever encountered. They should take the millions they spend to bus kids all over the city and put the money towards improving all of our schools and attracting top talent.

  100. 9:30 waitpooled at West Portal--

    I think you will have to decide on your strategy going forward when you see the new waitpool #s. Sure, there may be some movement at any of these schools, especially in September, but if 2 or 3 or even 5 slots open up (unlikely) and there are 30 people in the pool, what are your odds? Do you have a back-up plan, like doing a TK year, or parochial school, or what??? If not, I would definitely get the h*** out of the West Portal waitpool! Very bad odds there no matter what round you are in.

    JOES MI might indeed be a better bet, but, being frank here, holding out for immersion once Round 1 and the first WP run is past is tough. They are just so popular and parents who seek them out pretty motivated to keep those spots.

    I do think the previous poster is correct that they are seeking to fill 1/2 the slots at De Avila with primary Cantonese speakers, which is why no big movement so far. Might be worth keeping tabs on it as the program evolves....make BFF with an EPC counselor and call a lot to ask about that. Given that the program is so new, there might be more movement there.

    Also, I don't know if you would consider Spanish rather than Chinese immersion, but it is possible (won't know till we see the lists) that Revere, Marshall and Webster have smaller waitpools.

    Are you S.O.L. for language immersion? Well, again, take a look at the waitpool #s, but I guess I would suggest starting to think beyond immersion at this point. If a waitpool has more than 5 spots in your priority cohort or higher, do you really think it's likely you'll get the call?

    Shout out to next year's parents who really really want immersion: The main way people get immersion slots anymore is either by selecting newer/up-and-coming/poorer options in the first round (Revere, Webster), or by waitpooling the Mandarin schools in the first waitpool run to take advantage of the Mandarin spots opening up to English speakers. Beyond that, it's pretty hard. We saw several families holding out through the whole process last year for immersion, and they never got that call. It's fine to put West Portal, AFY, or Alvarado on your Round 1 list, but the odds are bad! So if you really want language immersion as your top priority, you are well advised to fill out your whole list with immersion and include some of the newer and yeah, poorer, schools in *Round 1*. By further rounds it will probably be too late.


  101. @9:30, you're not SOL but you're looking at a stressful summer. I'm sorry to hear that.

    What you want to do is go to the EPC as soon as they have the updated numbers and change your waitpool pick to the most acceptable school that has no waitpool or a very small one.

    Regarding immersion programs, every year there is very little movement at West Portal or Alice Fong Yu. Meanwhile because of the system, Jose Ortega and Starr King have had lots of waitpool space. It might still be possible to squeeze into one of those over the summer depending how many more people are waiting.

    The Jose Ortega GE program might be possible to get into. It's a good school in an admittedly inconvenient location for a lot of people, but it's getting hotter.

    For incoming parents -- if you get an assignment in Round 1, you should enroll there just to have a backup. There's no benefit in rejecting it.

  102. For those of you reading this blog because your children may start kindergarden next year, please do not freak out. I know numerous people without any diversity index points that got one of their top 7, including popular ones like Clarendon and Rooftop. It's just that they don't post on this blog. It seems this is more of a place to vent your frustrations, which is great, but it only provides a glimpse, not the whole picture.

    To all those with preschoolers, go visit a variety of schools so that you can make an informed choice and keep an open mind.

    To everyone else, good luck, It ain't over til the fat lady sings and she's not even on stage yet.

  103. This system does not work. Any system that expects you to be familiar with 15+ schools so that you can consider them choices and then gives you none is broken. We have no school and may never as a direct result of SFUSD. We get to face a summer of stress and uncertainy to add to the fall, winter and spring stress we alreday faced. Seriously considering moving.

  104. Well, you can always move to NYC or Oakland and their neighborhood system, where you think you are in a specific school zone but then get told at the last minute you are being assigned somewhere else. Parents are fuming there too.

    Or you can move to an exclusive suburb where the schools are all great but you lose the vitality and diversity of city life, an education in itself for our kids.

    I don't mean this in a snarky way--it's my personal bias, since I spent my high school years in a suburb after years of city living and felt like I was being embalmed alive. I do recognize that your mileage may vary on the city vs. suburb question. It's a personal decision on the trade-offs, obviously.

    The problem in our cities isn't (mainly) the assignment systems. It's scarcity of (perceived) good spots. And this scarcity is directly related to the tensions of living in a very diverse school district in socio-economic terms--especially since middle class perception of what is a "good" school or not is often directly correlated with percentages of not-poor vs. poor kids in the school.

    That's why ranting at the assignment system misses the point (not that aspects of it couldn't be improved, however). The frustrations are based in much deeper social contradictions. Oh, yeah, and the tax-starvation diet our state has been on since 1978, but that's a topic for another day.

  105. If anyone knows of schools that are undersubscribed but are hidden achievers I would love to know. I am so tired of hearing that you did not get your choice because you only selected high demand schools. Frankly, this is just not true. I hope the parents heading into 2010 do not buy this story, because it is all that is...a story.

  106. For the poster who got but didn't register at Longfellow I'd like to understand why? I thought it was a perfectly acceptable school. It didn't wow me or anything but seemed to have all the basics.

  107. 3:37, There's a thread on the under-enrolled hidden achievers just a few posts below this thread.

    Many of the hidden achievers mentioned there actually were pretty easy marks in the lottery in R1, but may not be so now, unfortunately. In my mind this includes Daniel Webster SI, Joes GE, Rosa Parks JBBP and GE, and Sutro; families who put these did get their choices, right? I haven't heard of anyone that hasn't. This is how well over half of first-time applicant families did get one of their choices. Note these cover a wide geographic area, too.

    Where the lottery has been different in the last two years compared to past years: It used to be you could go for broke in R1 and still fall back on some of those so-called hidden gems in subsequent rounds. That is not so much the case anymore. Round 1 is the big round.

    That's the advice I would give to next year's parents: Stretch your horizons way back in R1.

    What does this actually mean? The first thing you have to take in is that last year's hidden gem is this year's on-the-radar school, so you either have to put many of these on your list of seven to increase your odds, or else have your ear to the ground for the real hidden gems that will be next year's rising stars.

    Hidden gems in this case means schools that are under-requested or perhaps just slightly over-requested. Hidden gems are not hidden if they got 100+ applications the previous year--and there are many schools that get 100+ apps even though they are not Clarendon/ Rooftop/ West Portal. This data is available on the SFUSD site. Look at the list for demand for the previous 5 years application trends--if a school has moved into the 100+ category, it's not hidden! And especially if the demand is increasing over those 5 years, it just doesn't count as hidden. A good strategy in R1 is to include at least 2-3 true hidden achievers--schools that are under-requested or just at par.

    I realize not everyone wants to do this. I'm also not saying that you have to like it, just pointing out it's a good way to get at least a backup school you can live with (i.e., one you like a lot better than the school you will be assigned if you go 0/7)--and then you can still do the waitpool if you like.

    What I am saying is that this is good strategy for these times, with many more applicants in the pool, looking at this process with a cold eye. We *all* know it's frustrating not to be able to pick your favorite school and just walk in, but that's not the reality. For prospective parents, if you want a public school option by this time next year, try to bring that cold eye to the process. The data is (mostly) there to help you do that.

  108. There is no more strategy. There is no "choice." There is a lottery. The demand is at least as great as the supply. Under such demand conditions, choice is nearly irrelevant.

    We really have to stop calling it choice since it's nearly fiction, and certainly highly misleading at best.

    But cheer up! A pure lottery meets the SFUSD primary strategic objective of "equity." So take your equity with a teaspoon of sugar and love it.

  109. We're 0/15, have a private backup, didn't register with the assigned school from R1 (for many reasons), and would like Chinese immersion as waitlist. What do you guys know about the new school, De Avila? What do you think the chances are?

  110. Geez, Annette, for those of us who can't afford the nicer neighborhoods, it feels more like choice this way. I'm so, so glad that system will be intact for one more year. At least we will have a shot at a school with more resources, and also *some* control over decent fallback schools. My local school is not a great option, but there are others around here with pretty good odds of getting in that are far more acceptable to me:

    Webster SI
    Moscone (our diversity profile is a good match for it even though it is popular)
    Revere SI
    Marshall SI
    Starr King MI.

    Heck, that leaves room to list Alvarado SI and one other TBN superstar as filler. I'm also thinking of Taylor (on commute path).

    I agree it's a bit much to call the system "choice" but it's not pure chance, either.

    Btw [sets down bravado], am I wrong in thinking that my chances are okay with that list? Order of preference not clear yet.

  111. 6:55

    great that you have fallback, ie room to breathe.

    i think de avila is a worthy waitpool school mainly because it is so new that almost anything could happen. parents who don't like uncertainty could drop out, they could add a class, they could open up more english spots, etc. since you are not desperate, it's definitely worth a try. probably way more likely than alice fong yu or west portal. not sure how it will play out compared to waitpools at starr king and joes.

  112. 5:27,

    You seem to know a lot about this process and strategy. And unless you are an incredibly prolific writer, there are others who are similarly tactical and knowledgeable.

    When I first started on this path, I thought that PPS was going to be helpful in terms of strategy. I've been very disappointed - they are for after you're in a school, I think. They are for helping parents make their kids' schools better.

    There is a huge hole that needs to be filled in my opinion by people like you. You should start an advisory group (or perhaps you already have?) It's obvious EPC is over-stretched, and there is a lack of trust between EPC and parents in many cases.

  113. Lots of people here have specific questions -- re chances at various schools, etc. It's hard to really know until SFUSD releases stats from this round. Also, I highly recommend talking to a Parents for Public Schools couselor. This blog is a FABULOUS resource, don't get be wrong -- but it's only one tool out of many that people should be using, IMO. I talked to a counselor after Round I who had fabulous advice (well, in retrospect it was -- we got our wait pool choice), and it was specific to this year. Keep in mind that some feedback you get on this blog is from people who went through the process years ago. Even people who went through it a year ago or the year before have a different perspective, b/c of the high number of applicants this year. It's helpful to hear, but keep in mind it's only one data point.

  114. 9:30 at West Portal:

    I would seriously consider changing your wait pool school. West Portal is one of those schools that, for both GE and immersion, has very little or no movement off of the waitpool. Also, there tend to be hardship appeals that choose it, for some reason. Alice Fong Yu also tends to not have movement off of the waitpool. You might want to try one of the mandarin immersion programs or the new school at De Avila...

  115. did anyone here "try" to get 0/7 in R1 to be in a better cohort for waitpools? and, if so, has that panned out? curious.

  116. I agree with Ann. We live in the Mission, at the base of Bernal. We rent, don't own. We are not affording "the nice neighborhoods" as you say. The lottery hasn't helped us in anyway whatsoever because I don't speak a second language and don't live in Section 8 housing.

    although i don't belittle the priority given to folks who qualify, I need to agree with Anne that this is not a choice system.

  117. I didn't "try" to go 0/7, but I certainly didn't put an "safety" schools on my list. Our Round I list was:

    1. JOES MI
    2. West Portal (our neighborhood school)
    3. Miraloma (also close to us)
    4. Feinstein
    5. Commodore Sloat
    6. Alvarado GE
    7. Ulloa

    We got assigned JOES GE after going 0/7. That choice was totally acceptable to us, but we're glad we got JOES MI off the wait pool.

  118. We originally only put 5 schools on our Round 1 list and then added two before the change deadline so that we could be in the 0/7 cohort. It definitely makes a huge difference to be 0/7 when you are looking for something in Grade 2. As of Apr 6, we were the only ones in our cohort with 6 people in lower cohorts on the wait list. The big question is whether there is any movement allowing for spaces from the wait list to be filled. I spoke with the principal at West Portal about this and he said that the group of students entering 2nd next year hasn't had any movement during the past couple of years. We didn't wait pool West Portal for that reason.

    Of course we didn't intentionally try to go 0/7. We would have been happy with any of the schools we listed. We knew that there were at least 2 spaces in the current 1st Grade at places like McKinley, Diane Feinstein, Grattan and Harvey Milk, but couldn't see our children at any of those schools, so didn't put them on our list even though we would have likely gotten something in Round 1 had we chosen to do that.

    We won't know whether we did the right thing until they both receive acceptable assignments -- hopefully at the same school!

  119. we didn't try to be 0/7 or 0/15, but at the same time, did not compromise on our acceptable school list. That's because we have a backup, our kids' preshcool has K as well and we will just continue there another year, and last it out till fall. (next year, if we have the bad luck to do it again, without this backup- sure we will be less picky).

  120. We haven't received our letter on hardship appeal or round II....yet.

  121. Just reading these posts I'm a little confused. Is the SFUSD set up so that you could get assigned a school way out in say Bayview if you live say in the Marina? What if you don't own a car or can't drive an hour every morning to get your child to school? This seems like an incredibly bad way to go about a school system. Sorry, I just don't know the system here.

  122. De Avila is going to ROCK!

  123. 1st grade applicants letter. possible to get a letter today?...or am i just plucking at straws?

  124. Just to throw a curve ball here -- remember that you can apply to any immersion program in first grade with no previous language background. It's a little hard on the kids (we did it in Mandarin, after a summer session at the Chinese American International School.)
    Over the past few years it's been a somewhat reliable way to get immersion if you didn't get in in Kindergarten. Not sure how it will play out 2010-2011. But I'm usually at least a few kids move or switch schools between K and 1, so slots do open up. And if you're interested in Cantonese (and Mandarin later) DeAvila, with 3 kindergartens, is likely to have some slots next year.

  125. As for the comments regarding De Avila as a good waitpool choice, fat chance. To begin with, they sent out 150 total offers, to which 62 registered for the 66 K spots. There are abysmally few ELL speakers currently registered (although the aim is 50%, the latest number reported at a SFUSD curriculum meeting is a whopping 7 Cantonese speakers.) For any spots that do open up from here on out they are prioritizing selection based on 1) Cantonese speaking kids, 2)bilingual Cantonese/English kids, 3) Chinese "heritage" candidates and finally 4) the rest.

    Sad but true. Those who received initial offer letters got very very lucky.

  126. beth -- we are 1st grade immersion applicants. i think the effectiveness of that strategy, though viable up to now, might be coming to an end, sadly, because demand -- and parental willingness to transfer their kids for 1st -- now far exceeds available spots (even at the historically less popular programs...or those less popular with english speakers).

    those #s are so tight this year i can't imagine a 1st grader getting a spot until the 10-day count, in which case all hope for giving them an equalizing summertime boost goes out the window (i.e., little dakota will have to piss his pants for a couple weeks until he figures out how to ask to go to the toilette!)

  127. 8:48, we also appealed. While we haven't received an official letter rejecting or approving our appeal, the letter we received last Saturday indicated that we didn't get our waitpool choice or amended choices and that our school assignment remains the same from round 1. Although not certain, I'm assuming that our appeal is rejected since I thought the appeal decision is made prior to or at the same time as round 2.

    If anyone knows more about this appeal process or have received a decision on the appeal, please post some info.


  128. Yeah, first grade for immersion may not work for much longer, or at least may not be the shoo-in it has been in the past.
    One thing, the kids do forget a lot over the summer, so the teachers do a lot of pantomime at the beginning of the year, no worries that kids won´t be able to ask to go to the bathroom.

    I know the district said it had 500 more applicants for K this year than last year. I'd be very curious to know how many of those students actually ended up enrolling. Even if they raise the class size to 22, that's still 22 new Kindergarten classes to add for the fall, which is an astoundingly high number.

  129. Thanks for the update on DeAvila, 9:52. While disappointing news for those still looking, it's great to hear of the commitments in place despite the ups and downs of being on the ground floor of a new program. The strong parent commitments will help make it a great school. I just knew back in April when people were first complaining about their surprise assignment to DeAvila that mainly of them would end up feeling incredibly lucky :-).

  130. 8:51 "Is the SFUSD set up so that you could get assigned a school way out in say Bayview if you live say in the Marina?"

    If you CHOOSE a list of schools across the city and get one, then yes. If you don't get one of your choices, then the computer puts you at the CLOSEST school to your home that has space available.

    So if you don't get Sherman or Lilienthal, you probably won't be put in Malcolm X, but maybe Cobb or John Muir.

  131. EPC reports this AM that only about 200 kids got in off the waitpool in this run. That leaves about 800 without a suitable kindergarten choice. All of those kids are not going private-what will they do?

  132. 0/7 R1, 0/15 R2...

    wait-listing at Dianne Feinstein
    I am really frustrated. Is it true that they do another 2 more rounds of the lottery for waitlist in the summer???

  133. Milk,

    No more rounds, but now EPC will run the waitpool several times over the summer, with an opportunity to change your waitpool choice between each run.

    Good luck.

  134. Just because those 800 didn't get their waitpool, doesn't mean they don't have a school. Do they say how many got one of their R2 choices (we did), so I don't consider my kid "without a school".

  135. 0/15 and no 2nd round offer.
    We got a letter stating that we will remain in our waitpool for Feinstein but since we didnt accept the R1 offer (yes a school in bayview) we have nothing and that we should go into the placement office during open enrollment to pick a school. did any of you have done the open enrollment?? as far as feinstein do you think we should tough it out and wait or should waitlist elsewhere?

  136. Milk,

    I was in your shoes last year. We went to open enrollment (at 4:45am I was the 10th person in line.) The best school for us was J.Serra.

    After enrolling we toured it with a group. Only 1 family ended up there, I believe.

    Anyway, we put our kid in private (Katherine Michiels School--where she will likely attend 1st grade as well) and stayed in Lakeshore's waitpool.

    I think the last two years are different, and fewer people will get spots from crowded waitpools.

    First, you have to be in cohort 1.

    Next, perhaps 5 folks per class at best have a chance. So, if your waitpool school has 2 kindergartens, then no more than 10 folks should be in the 1st cohort with you in that pool.

    Make sense?

  137. To clarify, we enrolled in J.Serra at the EPC office during open enrollment, but after touring did not enroll her in the school, giving our space up to someone else. We went into the 10 day count with no school assignment because we loved KMS. We are not staying at KMS for both financial reasons, and because their upper grades are too small for us (2 kids each.)

  138. Kortney,

    Thanks~ Wow I didn't Know what we should get there early for open enrollment so it's first come first serve? Do we get a list of the school with openings before hand??? I guess I will camping out there.

  139. "EPC reports this AM that only about 200 kids got in off the waitpool in this run. That leaves about 800 without a suitable kindergarten choice."

    Whoa, whoa, whoa -- wait a minute. Where are those numbers from? I see nothing new on the SFUSD website. Do you have a link?

    Do we know that 1,000 families participated in Round II, or does that # come from people who went 0/7 in Round I? Remember, some of those folks accepted private school spots and so didn't participate in Round #2. 200 might actually be a pretty decent number, depending on how many people participated. That's roughly 9 classrooms.

    And Beth, remember -- there weren't 500 additional applicants this year. The number was closer to 400. I realize that's still a huge spike in demand, though, but it's not quite as extreme.

  140. 10:09 post - I think your math is a little bit off, but I do agree, with the increase in applicants I think they will be adding kinder classes. At least that is what I am banking on. We didn't take our assigned school in Round 1 (John Muir) and didn't get anything in Round 2. We are in a waitpool at a very popular school. At the moment we have the stomach to wait it out but might change our waitpool closer to September. We are willing to keep our child in her preschool and wait longer than the 10 day count, or even move. We just don't feel like we can enroll her in a place we aren't at all excited about. I'm sure many parents feel the same way, but don't have the ability to move out of the city or keep their kids in preschool. I guess we are lucky in that way (but not feeling lucky in any other ways). I just don't see anything positive about the current process of getting our kids into public school in San Francisco. I don't know the answer, or even how I would change the process. More money for schools, making all schools good schools no matter where they are located.

  141. Re: the 11:32 note. I don't want to minimize that family's difficult situation, but if the 11:32 family lived next to Malcom X or similar school, but got into Miraloma, I think they would find the resources to drive their child to Miraloma if they'd been fortunate enough to get in there.

  142. Do anyone know the date of the first open enrollment and also, are there other pertinent dates where parents can get access to open spots?

  143. 11:43
    remember that 400 additional this year as well as over 300 additional last year. That is a big number.

  144. When will be the round 2 stats and info about open spots be available? From a 0/15 er

  145. I just got off the phone with EPC. They are LESS than helpful. The woman I spoke to said "maybe the updated list will be posted today." Maybe???? I asked about new kinder classes, again "maybe, but we really don't know at this point." ggrrrrrrr.

  146. Is anyone on this list giving up a private school slot as a result of their round II letter?

  147. We got lucky and received our waitpool choice - Lafayette. Anyone who might be looking at changing their waitpool choice, take a look at Lafayette! It has 4 kindergartens, so I'm guessing the likelihood of more movement over the summer is probable.

    FYI - We were assigned Rosa Parks GE and will be giving up our spot.

  148. Ok-sorry for my vague math and 3rd hand info. I believe that the EPC rep said that there were around 200 children placed this round waitpool and R2.Visit to the office not anything printed or posted online. And I am just using the 1000 kids from round 1 who didn't get one of their 7 choices as my 'kids without schools'.

    So some go private and don't participate in round 2. Still there are a LOAD of kids without acceptable kindergarten choices.

    Seemingly more than can be accomodated by private/parochial and people moving out of the city. Where will all of our children go? They have to open more kinder classes don't they?

  149. 0/15 here too. We thought we had a good shot at our waitpool since there wasn't many people in it and last year it had cleared in the first round. I don't have the stomach to wait it out and my husband doesn't want to support public anymore. Parochial here we come.

  150. 12:54 here, excuse my grammar..I proofed after posting.

  151. 12:17 pm:
    We *may* be giving up our spot at Hillwood School ( as a result of Round 2. My husband and I have to do a lot of soul searching first. Right now we're 50/50 split between Hillwood and Sutro. We're still waitlisted at a fairly popular public school, too.

    In the event we get our wait list school, we will be giving up our spots at Hillwood and Sutro.

    Hillwood is a tiny school in Pacific Heights/Cow Hollow. Admission is on a first-come, first-served basis given that your child is a good fit for the school. Hillwood has small class sizes (no more than 17 total for the K/1st classroom this fall) and excellent academics but does not use progressive "project-based learning" principles and does not offer many extracurriculars. It's a no-nonsense traditional school with high academics. Overall, we love Hillwood but don't love the commute.

    Tuition is surprisingly reasonable, too, and is not much more expensive than before- and after- school care in public schools. (Tuition at Hillwood includes before- and after- school care.)

    The kids at Hillwood are really friendly and sweet - it nearly melted my heart. I was extremely impressed with the teachers as well.

    I'd urge anyone without an acceptable school to call the Director, Eric Grantz, ASAP. Good luck!

  152. 12:51

    It would be interesting to be able to track how many kids have dropped out of the process due to finding a spot in private or parochial or moving. Unfortunately, there is no way to track that. There is also no way to track the real level of frustration implied in those numbers--certainly some families will be paying for school or moving who don't want to be, but a certain number may have always preferred the private route, or applied only to Clarendon and the like, figuring they might get lucky but not really intending to go public unless they hit that jackpot. Who knows what that number is?

    Pure guesswork here. I'd actually guess the number of "R1 drop-outs" from the public process for private/public/suburbs numbers in the mid hundreds. Add in the 200 you say got waitpool spots plus an additional number that got R2 spots and I would guess that those still frustrated and without backup (in the K cohort, not counting upper grades) number now about 100. Is that loads of people? It's a lot, but not a crazy lot. Hopefully many of these will find spots in open enrollment or in subsequent waitpool rounds.

    Re whether they have to open more kindergartens or expand existing ones. They do if all spots are taken. In September last year, all but a few were taken, so this may indeed come into play this year. However, as long as spots exist at low-demand schools like Malcolm X and John Muir, they are not legally required to open up new ones. These spots may not be suitable by your lights, but technically they are available.

    Last year in open enrollment there were a few spots open in schools that I personally would find acceptable. No, not Clarendon, but Rosa Parks and Redding, just to give two examples. You have to get there early to snag them. I highly suggest that anyone planning to check out that list do a lot of research ahead of time on likely available schools so that you can make a decision on the spot.

  153. Does anyone know when the Round 2 placement info will be released and/or when the next waitpool data will be released?

  154. 1:11, see the post at 12:09. Someone said EPC is saying "maybe" today.

  155. The way I look at it, if 1000 children did not get any 1st Round Choice and only 200 were assigned in waitpool/RII, then 800 kids were not served by the public school system whether its because they decided to give up and go private, move or are now waiting around for a random assignment to open up. The numbers are appalling, trying to sugar coat them by saying folks really wanted private, etc. unless they got into X school misses the point and is speculation at best.

  156. Thanks for the post on Hillwood, I had asked about that on another thread. I did research and learn that it's not accredited, but neither is Brandeis, which has a great reputation, so while that's of interest, I'm not sure it's determinative. Further Hillwood comments would be much appreciated.

    We were shocked to get DeAvila in Round 2 since we speak English at home. It was #3 on our Round 2 list--maybe because we were looking for 1st not K. We had high hopes of getting the school we listed #1 for Round 2 (no hope of our wait pool but that's OK, we don't expect the wait pool to move until September) because the figures released indicated space was available and there was no wait list. Oh well . . . There seems to be a high degree of neighborhood (Cole Valley/Haight/Ashbury Heights/Western Addition) interest in DeAvila. I wonder if there will be enough Cantonese-speaking interest for the Chinese Immersion program to fly, or if not, if they will be willing to keep the school as a general Ed program, or maybe a Cantonese or European language acquisition program (sort of like Rosa Parks JBBP). No lecture on "only immersion is worth bothering" is necessary as long as parents have realistic expectations. Also does anybody know anything about after-school at DeAvila?

  157. 1:57, it is not sugar-coating to point out that there are parents who list only a few of the most super-high-demand schools because they are basically committed to private or paroachial school but figure what the heck, it costs nothing to apply for Alice Fong Yu or Clarendon. Given historical data that a certain cohort of schools receive hundreds or even over a thousand applicants for just a few dozen spots, it is NOT the fault of the district or the system if these people did not get a spot that is acceptable to them, if "acceptable" in this case means a spot with 4% or less odds of getting in. It's just reality that some parents do this, and it skews the numbers for those schools, and it skews the numbers of applicants upwards.

    Still other parents may list a full seven schools and include realistic choices but will say quite openly that they are using the public system as a backup--if they do get their favored parochial or private spot, they intend to take it, even if they get one of their public choices.

    This is reality. It would be irresponsible of the district to assume that every single family that appplies in Round 1 is actually intending to enroll in the district. If the district made that assumption, then it would be holding open many more spots than is warranted--and this would mean hiring teachers (who have in their contract that they must get layoff notices in March) and preparing classrooms, at great cost.

    I don't mean to imply that there are not frustrated parents right now who need a spot in public school. Nor do I mean to say that the numbers spike of the last two years combined with the economic crisis hasn't created a larger pool of such parents. Nor am I saying that any number of frustrated parents isn't a problem.

    Just that yes, it is appropriate to point out that the district absolutely should be counting on a significant number of that disappointed 1,000 from R1 not to stay with the process--many of them for reasons of personal choice--they actually prefer their private/parochial option or would only accept a very small subset of hard-to-get public schools, and so seek other options from the get-go. That is not the same group as those 0/15ers who feel driven now to move or scramble to find other options like TK or private, or live through weeks or months of uncertainty. This group is much smaller than 800, which means that the problem facing the district to find spots for these kids is much more manageable.

  158. Seems to me the significant number is how many applicants participated in Round 2 - not including the waitpool - and of those applicants, how many were placed. That should give you a true number of families still on seriously the hunt for a school for the fall.

    Presumably, if you only participated in the waitpool, you have a school you are OK with, public or private, but are looking to move up your list. If you participated in round 2, you may have enrolled in your assigned school, but your probably not happy with it.

  159. 2:45--2:19 here--Agreed, that is a more accurate way to assess the level of frustration. I don't know if they will release those figures, though.

  160. Am I the only one who hasn't gotten any letter at all? Nothing in today's mail either.

  161. 2:15 pm regarding accredited private schools:
    Accreditation wasn't important to us. The State of CA does not accredit public or private schools. Public and private school accreditation can be obtained through WASC - I don't know what their criteria is and how difficult it is to get accredited. I didn't see a single public elementary school in SF that was accredited and, honestly, I was shocked at how few SF schools (both public and private) were listed.

    There is no requirement for a teacher in a private school to be credentialed. However, teachers at Hillwood are credentialed. That was very important to us.

  162. We had Comm Sloat as our waitpool choice and DID NOT get it. We are now 0/15. Feeling a bit panicked, kinda thought we'd be done by now (stupid wishful thinking).

  163. Regarding # participating in Round 2, you could tally the waitpool #s by grade in the April 6 waitpool document. There's a total column that includes all cohorts. That should be pretty accurate as to how many entered, I imagine everyone who did Round 2 picked a waitpool school. (I thought I tallied all this but I think the right document is at home, I can try to repost tonight if no one else has time to add them all up.)

  164. 3:24, that's true, except that the WP #s reflect some (many? who knows?) who may be just fine with their assigned school but are hoping to get a more preferred school or program--immersion, for example.

    The question of how many families are at this moment truly without a school they are happy with is more difficult to assess. Round 2 participation--minus the numbers that got a WP spot or a R2 spot--would be an inexact, but more accurate, assessment of this. I don't know if SFUSD will publish these numbers, however.

  165. To 5:53 w/one twin into Lakeshore: how did that happen? We have twins and were told this would never happen. We always submit our twins' applications together, stapled with "twin" written all over it. This is what SFUSD aid we had to do. Did you do that, or submit them separately? just curious, b/c of course SFUSD gives out contadictory info all the time.

  166. For those still out of luck, please note there is a ROUND 3 this year (NEW for 2009). You must submit an amended list by May 15. Letters will be mailed May 29.

    Although there will be some movement as lucky people change to their new assignments from the first WP run and Round 2, I'll be the broken record: please be conservative in your picks. I highly doubt that ANY school with a waitpool will open up for Round 3 amended lists. And if you really, really need a spot, I wouldn't recommend waitpooling anywhere with more than 5 people in your priority cohort or higher. Yeah, it bites, but it's reality.

    Now, if they would just publish those lists already....

  167. Whoa, a R3. Yes, I agree that it will be virtually impossible to get a tally of how many don't have *any* option.

  168. 4:18 - Where did you get this information?

  169. MLK,

    If you live next to D. Feinstein but got assigned to BayView could I ask you what school? Most people who live in the Sunset got assigned to JOES or Sheridan.

  170. fwiw -

    we were offered two spots for 1st grade at de avila and declined them to stay at daniel webster. so, those of you considering immersion for 1st grade, you might consider de avila.

    the R3 run is good. i always thought it was odd that they did random waitpool runs through the summer. at least as a "round" it will have secure dates assigned to it.

    good luck everyone.

  171. If you are interest in 1st grade at De Avila:

    According to one of the recent Board of Education meetings (not sure which date), De Avila first grade only has something like 17 kids enrolled as of round 1, capacity is 44.

    I found it through SFUSD's website, click "Board of Education," search the video clips by entering "De Avila." It will take some time to find the correct clip.

    Given that De Avila is Cantonese immersion, not sure the requirements needed for first grade though.

    Good luck

  172. First grade does look like a good choice for first grade spots. And for some reason, they've already got a good 50/50 balance of Cantonese/Non-Cantonese speakers, which means that as a non-Cantonese speaker, you (perhaps) wouldn't automatically go to the bottom of the heap

    I'm still mourning that we didn't get into K there, as I suspect is the earlier poster who gave specific details about the make-up of K

  173. Be practical in R3 and during open enrollment, and remember the sage advice from last year's parent: you will be fighting to get a school now that you thought didn't look "good" in R1...DeAvila, Redding, Sheridan, Taylor, Longfellow, Sutro, Cobb, and all the GE components at Immersion schools... Many families will wish that they did not reject their R1 assignment. This was said time and time again during the entire process. Don't say that you weren't warned.

    Also, if only 100 children have no assignment at this time, them that is a very, very low overall percentage on the entire Class of 2021! That would suggest that the lottery, while frustrating and in need of a few tweaks, is actuslly serving the majority of San Franciscans very well. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water for a vocal few. This blog is not representative of the happy majority.

  174. If your assigned school is unacceptable than the lottery system is not doing it's job serving San Francisco.

  175. It does seem likely that SFUSD will have to add Kindergartens, but they can't just add them randomly. A lot of schools are absolutely out of space, especially space that is appropriate to a K classroom...or enough space for a portable classroom to be added. And I don't think there will be a hurry to hire teachers until EPC feels pretty confident of the numbers.

  176. Does anyone know if there will be a decision letter mailed for the appeals submitted at round 1? We got a letter saying that we didn't get our waitpool choice or amended choice but nothing mentioned about our appeal.

  177. 5:46 - there is no language requirement for entrance into an immersion program for first grade. (second grade, yes.)

    i was surprised at the de avila numbers for kinder - so few cantonese speaking children. the first grade has a balance but needs children from BOTH cantonese and english speaking families to complete two rooms of 20.

    it appears that a large number of those parents offered spots at de avila in round 1 for first grade did not accept them (only 17 out of 40+ accepted). fear of the unknown vs. another school they have spent a year in.

  178. "If your assigned school is unacceptable than the lottery system is not doing it's job serving San Francisco."

    Actually I think there are some schools in SF which NOBODY would find acceptable, but I could be wrong.

  179. We're going with a parochial school and will be releasing our assigned spot at Redding if that helps anyone.

  180. Information on Round 3 is on the sfusd website and on

    On, click on enrollment, then enrollment timeline (on the left bar), then go to "timeline, deadline dates and resources" (on the right bar). scroll down to the timeline. Round 3 is listed there.

    On, go to enrollment, then 2009-10 enrollment information, then scroll down to key dates. they don't list it specifically as Round 3, but they make it clear that Round 2 participants can submit new amended lists, and that results will be mailed on May 29. New amended lists are due at EPC by May 15.

    Good luck!

  181. I agree...if your assigned school at this stage is not acceptable than SFUSD is not doing its job. Dozens of schools are at capacity, it seems that undersubscribed just does not exist unless you are talking about the schools that should frankly be shut down because no one has straightened them out in years under this system.

  182. Yes, there are some spots/schools that few if any really want. That is true. A few of the schools are very dysfunctional. That is a crying shame, seriously.

    It's also the case that there are perfectly fine, functional schools that float below the radar of many parents because of location, demographics, or whatever. There are still a few spots out there in schools that are decent, though unrecognized by folks here. It is not the fault of SFUSD if these latter spots go begging (as Rosa Parks JBBP did last year, with parents posting here daily about how great it was and to come on down and look--and there were spots open as late as open enrollment!) while people hold onto their spots in impossible waitpools like West Portal.

    Absolutely, SFUSD has a responsibility to offer spots in decent schools--and there are some cases where they don't, and that's on them--but we parents have to be practical in this diverse district and be willing to meet them partway, which might mean stretching a little outside our comfort zones. Part of city living, part of what public school is all about.

    The key, especially at this moment in the process, is distinguishing between the underenrolled schools that are dysfunctional and those that are just off the radar.

    Agreed that they may need to add spots further into the process though. Problem is that many of the popular schools are at capacity already, especially for kindergarten classrooms that must be on a ground floor. Will be interesting to see where they add.

  183. Do anyone who where on the sf school site I would look for updated waitpool information?

  184. I am the 2:53 poster. If I didn't get anything in the mail yet, should I call EPC? Or have others still also not received anything in the mail yet about round II?

  185. 8:30, two things to add.

    First, even though a school may not be so dysfunctional to be a crying shame, but it may not be what a family has in mind (teaching is rote instead of focused on critical thinking, teachers get exasperated with students, lots of discipline problems taking up much of teaching time, atmosphere of community punishment during recess etc. etc.)

    Also a school may be acceptable, but too far away from home (an hour and a quarter by public transport, a 30 minute drive each way not on the way to work etc.).

    I think it's fine to ask parents to look beyond their ideal school, but it also is a little beyond the pale to tour 20 schools, find 10 acceptable and be given a choice of schools across town not even on the original list.

  186. no letter today for us, either.

  187. Since there is a Round 3 this year, if you dont' submit for it, and you are 0/16, do they run your original round 2 list again or do you have to RESUBMIT?

  188. Sure, 8:53. I mean, what you are describing is actually across that line to unacceptably dysfunctional imo. But not all that you might assume are that way really are. Do you think JOES is like this? Redding? Taylor? Sutro? Rosa Parks? .....really?

    Take JOES GE. This was scorned by many who were assigned there in R1, but is really a very lovely community with good leadership, and believe me, it will be a much better option than some others that will be the ones left in open enrollment. The point is that it is not all or nothing--top 20 and then fall off a cliff. I can understand why someone would want a fully baked school with a good rep, but for anyone on that side of town, or commuting southward near 280, JOES GE would have been a great backup while waiting for the waitpool rounds. Or even just a very nice school, period. Same is true for several other schools (and I'm not talking about John Muir).

    Yet people chose not to register at these up-and-coming schools and some of them really need schools now. The point is to make a distinction between these and the ones that are over that line you draw. I think if you read comments on this blog closely, you could hear some of those distinctions. You could also go visit and see for yourself.

    There are still a few good spots left. For those trying again in Round 3, choose carefully! Try to find 2-3 schools for your list that really are under-enrolled (no waitpool) and are also nice little communities--art on the walls, teachers not martinets in the yard. There are distinctions to still to be made. You can still waitpool at a longer shot, but try to get spot somewhere so you're not desperate at open enrollment.

  189. Resubmit! They might assume that you are no longer going to attend a SFUSD school (i.e., going private or have moved). Do not assume anything at this point!

  190. I posted something earlier about not receiving a decision letter on my appeal. I thought all appeal decisions and round 2 offers come out at the same time - May 1. It's concerning to me that some people already received their appeal decision but I still haven't. The post from 5/2 at 11:32 got their rejected appeal letter (that family's appeal should've been approved!!!)

    I did received the round 2 letter last Saturday - saying that I didn't get waitpool or amended choice. I'm to remain with the round 1 assignment.

    For those still waiting for the round 2 letter, I'd call them after tomorrow if I were you.

  191. I didn't see anything about a round 3. Are you SURE??

    You can submit new waitpool school maybe.

    Can some one verify?

  192. Paula, I do think you have to resubmit, but my goodness, if you are 0/16 so far, wouldn't you want to???? Barring a major stroke of luck, the list you submitted for R2 isn't going to bring any more success in R3. I don't know your list, but I would consider adding a handful of under-enrolled schools at this point--fine to keep a couple of your true faves on there just in case, but don't get your hopes up there (sorry).

    The waitpool list will be posted shortly on on their enrollment page. It takes a little effort to compare the waitpool list against the list of total schools, but you want to look for the schools (or programs) with NO waitpool at this point. Try for three at a minimum on your R3 list.

  193. 9:14
    I don't believe there is a R3.

  194. 9:13/9:18

    from the district website, key dates:

    May 15th, 2009
    Last day to submit an appeal, waiting pool & or amended application for Round 2 Participants.

    May 29, 2009
    Mail offers to Round 2 families who submitted an amended application and/or waiting pool. Mail offers to families who submitted an application form between March 28 - May 9, 2008

    June 1, 2009
    Open enrollment begins
    Also, PPS key enrollment dates specifically lists a Round 3.

    I suppose it is possible that both of these are out of date, but that's what it says.

  195. Can someone from PPS clarify about a round 3, please, if you are reading this?


  196. Yes, please clarify.

    SFUSD site is vague, at best. "ammended app for round 2" ? Why not call it round 3?

    We haven't gotten our letter yet, either, BTW.

  197. Thanks for your thoughts, on Round 2 I did put a new list of under-enrolled schools, not the traditional popular ones. I think by round 2 though, my theory is that even those schools were filled as people who put them in last place in Round 1 got them. Who knows, thanks for the thoughts though, I will keep plugging ahead!

  198. This is 8:53 again.

    Actually, my child attends one of the schools you mention. It was a great back up while we were waiting for our waitpool school and an acceptable school for this year in K--more than acceptable in some ways. However, the teaching style does not encourage critical thinking much, and it is quite far away. It is a functional school, with many good points, but just not for us. And far away --did I mention that?

    I guess my point is: yes, it's good to have a back-up plan, and not a disaster to wait it out at a school you may turn out to love. But then again, you may turn out to feel it is not educating your child in an acceptable way, and straining your family with the logistics of getting there and back every day. And then what? lottery year after year? move out of SF (impossible for us for many reasons)?

    Once you have not lucked out in Round I, you MAY luck out in round II and beyond, or may not. But at some point, you may be trapped without luck, because at a certain point it is hard to get an alternative.

    This is not a fair system, in my opinion.

  199. 9:29
    I feel you.

  200. I am the person who posted earlier today basically saying we shouldn't get hysterical that "only" 200 people were placed off the wait pools, because we don't know how many people actually participated. I just went to the SFUSD website and was going to add up the numbers on the spreadsheet. Then I realized it includes all grades -- K-12. So it really depends on whether the 200 figure is for just K, all elementary grades, or K-12. I mean, there are 346 in the Lincoln HS wait pool alone.

    I counted about 988 people in the K wait pools though, for what that's worth.